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Arcadian Rises
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 Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 3:17 pm Post subject: Other meanings not listed in dictionaries |
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What is the figurative meaning (if any) of "town hall" or "Town
Hall"? |
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Barbara Bailey
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| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 5:10 pm Post subject: Re: Other meanings not listed in dictionaries |
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Arcadian Rises wrote:
| Quote: |
What is the figurative meaning (if any) of "town hall" or "Town
Hall"?
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Literally, it's the building which houses the local governmental offices,
or the majority of them (often excluding the police department and fire
department which have their own, separate buildings.) Used this way, it has
equivalent phrases in "village hall", city hall", "county building" and
[village, town, city or county] offices.
Figuratively, in "a town hall meeting", it means the government officials
(or some subset of them) plus members of the general population of the
area. Generally a town hall meeting is held to find out how the residents
feel about some action that the government proposes to undrtake or is
considering, and the govenmental officers are there more to listen than to
talk, or to answer questions from the residents.
In the admonition "You can't fight town (or, more often, "city") hall," and
similar constructions ("He's taking on city hall," "She beat city hall,")
it means "the government as an entity", rather than the building or the
individual people who are officials in the government. This usage stems
from the fact that, especially during the eras of "machine politics",
falling afoul of one city department often led to retribution imposed by
other departments as well; for example, a restaranteur who balked at making
a change in his signs that the zoning department asked for could find that
the health department is inspecting his business more often and more
stringently, and the police department is being stricter about parking and
noise regulations, and that the sanitation department suddenly requires
that his garbage cans be placed *just so* or they won't empty them and so
on. |
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Garrett Wollman
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| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 7:22 pm Post subject: Re: Other meanings not listed in dictionaries |
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In article <Xns9AD17BDF76B69rabrabbjbyayhoocom@194.177.96.78>,
Barbara Bailey <rabrabbjb@yayhu.comm> wrote:
| Quote: |
Figuratively, in "a town hall meeting", it means the government officials
(or some subset of them) plus members of the general population of the
area. Generally a town hall meeting is held to find out how the residents
feel about some action that the government proposes to undrtake or is
considering, and the govenmental officers are there more to listen than to
talk, or to answer questions from the residents.
|
Note that this is distinct from "a town meeting" or (no determiner)
"Town Meeting", which is the default form of local government in
Massachusetts, Vermont, New Hampshire, and Maine. (And in
Massachusetts, but not the other states AFAIK, "Town Meeting" also
refers, by metonymy, to the body of a town's electors when acting in
Town Meeting. Large towns may have "Representative Town Meeting"
which is almost but not quite entirely unlike the traditional
direct-democracy form of town meeting.)
Town Meeting Day, the day after the first Monday in March, is a state
holiday in Vermont.
-GAWollman
--
Garrett A. Wollman | The real tragedy of human existence is not that we are
wollman@csail.mit.edu| nasty by nature, but that a cruel structural asymmetry
Opinions not those | grants to rare events of meanness such power to shape
of MIT or CSAIL. | our history. - S.J. Gould, Ten Thousand Acts of Kindness |
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Arcadian Rises
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| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 7:28 pm Post subject: Re: Other meanings not listed in dictionaries |
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I am overwhelmed with gratitude that the most revered and RR took
their time to educate me.
I first encounter "Town Hall" as the name of the New York City
building hosting a concert hall where big stars (like Andrew Watts)
perform for free on Sundays in the month of May each year.
Then I saw the funny definition (vide infra), and it dawned on me that
"Town Hall" is the equivalent of "City Hall" which sometimes conveys a
figurative meaning.
....and the rest is history: I posted the question and the heavy
artillery of this forum came to my rescue.
Here is the definition copied verbatim (alas, no cut&paste) from a
page-a-day calendar July 1, 2008:
================
town hall: An elaborate, well-orchestrated dog-and-pony show to boost
morale and signify that everything's just great; in reality, the
antithesis of a true town hall, as nothing that occurs there is really
open to debate or discussion; contains requisite Q&A session as an
opportunity for senior exec to spit back answers scripted by the
corporate communications team; provides rare chance for an employee to
ask about an issue that everyone in the audience knows about, exposing
an executive as shamefully out-of -touch with day-to-day company
reality; in its darkest form, a big meeting to tell employees about
the huge layoffs on the horizon.
=============== |
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the Omrud
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| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 9:11 pm Post subject: Re: Other meanings not listed in dictionaries |
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Arcadian Rises wrote:
| Quote: |
What is the figurative meaning (if any) of "town hall" or "Town
Hall"?
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I can't think of one. I presume you know what it means - it's the UK
Town equivalent of the US "City Hall" - i.e. the centre of local
government administration.
--
David |
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Woody Wordpecker
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| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 9:13 pm Post subject: Re: Other meanings not listed in dictionaries |
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On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 08:17:37 -0700 (PDT), Arcadian Rises
<Arcadianrises@aol.com> said:
| Quote: |
What is the figurative meaning (if any) of "town hall" or "Town
Hall"?
|
When a politician refers to a town-hall meeting, as I
understand it, he or she isn't thinking of "town hall" as a
large public edifice where public meetings are held, but of
a meeting of a group of citizens anywhere there's room for
it.
For example, at
http://obama.senate.gov/news/050330-obama_tackles_issues_in_town_h/
(dated 30 March 2005) it says in part
It was all part of the freshman senator's latest town
hall meeting Tuesday with about 400 people at
Westhaven School in Belleville.
Google gets about 601,000 hits on the string
"Town hall meeting" Obama
--
Bob Cunningham, | Let those who have the least to lose
Southern California | be vanguards of new forms.
US and A | Let those who need to win respect
| observe accepted norms.
| -- Woody Wordpecker, ca 1996 |
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tony cooper
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| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 9:45 pm Post subject: Re: Other meanings not listed in dictionaries |
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On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 08:17:37 -0700 (PDT), Arcadian Rises
<Arcadianrises@aol.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
What is the figurative meaning (if any) of "town hall" or "Town
Hall"?
|
The literal meaning is a building that is designated as the Town Hall
where meetings and discussions are held that involve the public and
people in political office or who are running for political office.
The figurative meaning is discussion, debate, or meeting where the
issues and style of meeting that would be held in a building
designated as the Town Hall is held somewhere else.
You could have a "Town Hall" meeting in the school gymnasium or in a
church. It becomes a "Town Hall" meeting when the public can
participate by asking questions or making statements.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida |
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Don Phillipson
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| Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 12:44 am Post subject: Re: Other meanings not listed in dictionaries |
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"Garrett Wollman" <wollman@bimajority.org> wrote in message
news:g4lta3$euf$4@grapevine.csail.mit.edu...
| Quote: |
Note that this is distinct from "a town meeting" or (no determiner)
"Town Meeting", which is the default form of local government in
Massachusetts, Vermont, New Hampshire, and Maine. . . .
Town Meeting Day, the day after the first Monday in March, is a state
holiday in Vermont.
|
Town Meetings were also central to the small-town democracy
promoted by Vermonter John Dewey, whose philosophy
was formerly "greatly influential in the United
States and around the world" (Wikipedia.) He seems now
largely forgotten, probably because his books were dull and
long-winded, but he left his mark on American education.
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada) |
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John Dean
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| Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 3:43 am Post subject: Re: Other meanings not listed in dictionaries |
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Arcadian Rises wrote:
| Quote: |
What is the figurative meaning (if any) of "town hall" or "Town
Hall"?
|
'town halls' is rhyming slang for 'balls'. (Some people put in an apostrophe
at one place or another) As in "You've made a right town halls of that"
--
John Dean
Oxford |
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Peter Duncanson (BrE)
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| Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 5:18 am Post subject: Re: Other meanings not listed in dictionaries |
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On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 23:43:28 +0100, "John Dean"
<john-dean@fraglineone.net> wrote:
| Quote: |
Arcadian Rises wrote:
What is the figurative meaning (if any) of "town hall" or "Town
Hall"?
'town halls' is rhyming slang for 'balls'. (Some people put in an apostrophe
at one place or another) As in "You've made a right town halls of that"
|
Does anyone know the origin of the "hames" used with a similar
meaning?
http://www.peevish.co.uk/slang/h.htm
hames Noun. A mess, a shambles. E.g."She made a complete
hames of that meal, by overcooking the beef and making lumpy
gravy." [Irish use]
Then there is:
Horlicks Noun. A mess. Dated expression and rarely heard.
E.g."I made a complete horlicks of the situation."
Horlicks is a bedtime drink:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horlicks
I wonder whether it is used as a rhyme with bollicks (variant
pronunciation of bollocks)?
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english) |
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Peter Duncanson (BrE)
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| Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 5:21 am Post subject: Re: Other meanings not listed in dictionaries |
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On Sat, 05 Jul 2008 01:18:09 +0100, "Peter Duncanson (BrE)"
<mail@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
| Quote: |
Horlicks Noun. A mess. Dated expression and rarely heard.
E.g."I made a complete horlicks of the situation."
Horlicks is a bedtime drink:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horlicks
I wonder whether it is used as a rhyme with bollicks (variant
pronunciation of bollocks)?
|
Having read the Wikipedia article, the answer to my question
seems to be "Yes".
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english) |
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Robert Bannister
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| Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 5:35 am Post subject: Re: Other meanings not listed in dictionaries |
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the Omrud wrote:
| Quote: |
Arcadian Rises wrote:
What is the figurative meaning (if any) of "town hall" or "Town
Hall"?
I can't think of one. I presume you know what it means - it's the UK
Town equivalent of the US "City Hall" - i.e. the centre of local
government administration.
|
The strange thing is that most of our "town halls" are now relics of
smaller administrative units that have now been swallowed up by larger
bodies who prefer names like "civic centre" or worse. There probably are
some, but off the top of my head I can't think of a single town hall in
Perth that retains its original function.
--
Rob Bannister
Perth, W Australia. |
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Jitze
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 6:33 am Post subject: Re: Other meanings not listed in dictionaries |
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On Sat, 05 Jul 2008 01:18:09 +0100, "Peter Duncanson (BrE)"
<mail@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
| Quote: |
On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 23:43:28 +0100, "John Dean"
john-dean@fraglineone.net> wrote:
Arcadian Rises wrote:
What is the figurative meaning (if any) of "town hall" or "Town
Hall"?
'town halls' is rhyming slang for 'balls'. (Some people put in an apostrophe
at one place or another) As in "You've made a right town halls of that"
Does anyone know the origin of the "hames" used with a similar
meaning?
http://www.peevish.co.uk/slang/h.htm
hames Noun. A mess, a shambles. E.g."She made a complete
hames of that meal, by overcooking the beef and making lumpy
gravy." [Irish use]
Then there is:
Horlicks Noun. A mess. Dated expression and rarely heard.
E.g."I made a complete horlicks of the situation."
Horlicks is a bedtime drink:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horlicks
I wonder whether it is used as a rhyme with bollicks (variant
pronunciation of bollocks)?
|
Many years ago, the descriptor "Harpic" was used to describe
people who were ... shall we say "somewhat eccentric". People
who might have been described as "doolally" in a previous era
of colonialism.
I didn't know the origin of this term until I went to Britain the
first time and saw the ads for this product - a toilet cleansing
product whose advertising jingle was "clean round the bend".
Jitze |
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Peter Duncanson (BrE)
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| Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 6:40 am Post subject: Re: Other meanings not listed in dictionaries |
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On Fri, 04 Jul 2008 18:33:12 -0700, Jitze <couperus@znet.com>
wrote:
| Quote: |
Many years ago, the descriptor "Harpic" was used to describe
people who were ... shall we say "somewhat eccentric". People
who might have been described as "doolally" in a previous era
of colonialism.
I didn't know the origin of this term until I went to Britain the
first time and saw the ads for this product - a toilet cleansing
product whose advertising jingle was "clean round the bend".
|
Thanks for the reminder, Jitze. I have just applied some of the
fluid where it belongs.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english) |
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Peacenik
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| Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 7:29 am Post subject: Re: Other meanings not listed in dictionaries |
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"Woody Wordpecker" <exw6sxq@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:58is64lkc7mhebqccmud5dnq9kn6blg3ag@4ax.com...
| Quote: |
On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 08:17:37 -0700 (PDT), Arcadian Rises
Arcadianrises@aol.com> said:
What is the figurative meaning (if any) of "town hall" or "Town
Hall"?
When a politician refers to a town-hall meeting, as I
understand it, he or she isn't thinking of "town hall" as a
large public edifice where public meetings are held, but of
a meeting of a group of citizens anywhere there's room for
it.
|
It's only this year that I began hearing, in media reports, the term "town
hall" without the word "meeting" immediately following it to mean "town hall
meeting". |
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