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Bob G
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 Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 4:11 am Post subject: Fortuitous again |
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A scene in a cowboy movie I was watching on TV. The sophisticated girl
from the East stumbles upon the cowboy of her dreams:
She: I thought we'd never meet.
He: Yes.
She: It was fortuitous.
(A long pause)
She: That means lucky.
He: I know.
I didn't watch much longer after that, and never found out the
answers: Did the actors know and didn't want to correct the script
writers and run the risk of offending them? Was it part of the plot,
the cowboy didn't want to correct the girl because he fancied her and
was afraid she'd never speak to him again? Did the writers wish to
imply that he was humoring her so he could feel superior to her? Was
she playing with him, deliberately making a mistake to test his
knowledge? Was she insinuating her desire for him, knowing full-well
the meaning of the word, but twisting it to hint at her feelings? Or
perhaps no one, actors, writers, editors, even the director, noticed
the error? |
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Bob G
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| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 5:55 am Post subject: Re: Fortuitous again |
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| Quote: |
Where is the error? "Fortuitous" means "by chance" or "lucky".
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida-
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Merriam-Webster:
1: occurring by chance
2 a: fortunate, lucky <from a cost standpoint, the company's timing is
fortuitous — Business Week> b: coming or happening by a lucky chance
<belted down the stairs, and there was a fortuitous train — Doris
Lessing>
synonyms see accidental
— for·tu·itous·ly adverb
— for·tu·itous·ness noun
usage Sense 2a has been influenced in meaning by fortunate. It has
been in standard if not elevated use for some 70 years, but is still
disdained by some critics. Sense 2b, a blend of 1 and 2a, is virtually
unnoticed by the critics. Sense 1 is the only sense commonly used in
negative constructions.
Well, I guess I'm one of the dwindling, disdaining critics. Why use
"fortuitous", and rob it of its narrow, precise meaning, when
"fortunate" is what is meant? |
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tony cooper
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| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 9:51 am Post subject: Re: Fortuitous again |
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On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 21:11:41 -0700 (PDT), Bob G
<bobjames27@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
| Quote: |
A scene in a cowboy movie I was watching on TV. The sophisticated girl
from the East stumbles upon the cowboy of her dreams:
She: I thought we'd never meet.
He: Yes.
She: It was fortuitous.
(A long pause)
She: That means lucky.
He: I know.
I didn't watch much longer after that, and never found out the
answers: Did the actors know and didn't want to correct the script
writers and run the risk of offending them? Was it part of the plot,
the cowboy didn't want to correct the girl because he fancied her and
was afraid she'd never speak to him again? Did the writers wish to
imply that he was humoring her so he could feel superior to her? Was
she playing with him, deliberately making a mistake to test his
knowledge? Was she insinuating her desire for him, knowing full-well
the meaning of the word, but twisting it to hint at her feelings? Or
perhaps no one, actors, writers, editors, even the director, noticed
the error?
|
Where is the error? "Fortuitous" means "by chance" or "lucky".
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida |
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tony cooper
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| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 11:03 am Post subject: Re: Fortuitous again |
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On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 22:55:12 -0700 (PDT), Bob G
<bobjames27@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
| Quote: |
Where is the error? "Fortuitous" means "by chance" or "lucky".
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida-
Merriam-Webster:
1: occurring by chance
2 a: fortunate, lucky <from a cost standpoint, the company's timing is
fortuitous — Business Week> b: coming or happening by a lucky chance
belted down the stairs, and there was a fortuitous train — Doris
Lessing
synonyms see accidental
— for·tu·itous·ly adverb
— for·tu·itous·ness noun
usage Sense 2a has been influenced in meaning by fortunate. It has
been in standard if not elevated use for some 70 years, but is still
disdained by some critics. Sense 2b, a blend of 1 and 2a, is virtually
unnoticed by the critics. Sense 1 is the only sense commonly used in
negative constructions.
Well, I guess I'm one of the dwindling, disdaining critics. Why use
"fortuitous", and rob it of its narrow, precise meaning, when
"fortunate" is what is meant?
|
Perhaps you use the word to mean "fortunate", but I don't and I don't
see or hear used by others that way. It means "by chance" or "by
luck". Chance and luck can go either way, and "foruitous " is linked
to a beneficial chance happening or good luck, but the primary meaning
is still "chance" or "luck".
It wouldn't be fortuitous if the cowboy ran into a gunslinger who was
out to get him, but meeting a pretty young school marm could be
fortuitous. Only, though, if the meeting was by chance.
It would not be fortuitous if the cowboy inherited his father's ranch
because there is no luck or chance involved. But it would be
fortunate.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida |
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Richard Maurer
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| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 11:03 am Post subject: Re: Fortuitous again |
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Tony Cooper wrote:
Where is the error? "Fortuitous" means "by chance" or "lucky".
"Lucky" if you were the one who rolled the four;
"unlucky" if you were the one who rolled the two.
-- ---------------------------------------------
Richard Maurer To reply, remove half
Sunnyvale, California of a homonym of a synonym for also.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
(Send 'em back, Send 'em back -- W-a-a-a-y back) |
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Steve Hayes
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| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 11:02 pm Post subject: Re: Fortuitous again |
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On Fri, 04 Jul 2008 00:51:12 -0400, tony cooper <tony_cooper213@earthlink.net>
wrote:
| Quote: |
Where is the error? "Fortuitous" means "by chance" or "lucky".
|
Yes, but luck can be good or bad, and "lucky" tends to mean only good luck.
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk |
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tony cooper
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| Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 12:10 am Post subject: Re: Fortuitous again |
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On Fri, 04 Jul 2008 20:02:25 +0200, Steve Hayes
<hayesmstw@hotmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
On Fri, 04 Jul 2008 00:51:12 -0400, tony cooper <tony_cooper213@earthlink.net
wrote:
Where is the error? "Fortuitous" means "by chance" or "lucky".
Yes, but luck can be good or bad, and "lucky" tends to mean only good luck.
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Yes, but "error" means "wrong" and misleading. Had the lady said "It
means 'strong' as a fort", that would be an error.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida |
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Robert Bannister
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| Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 5:14 am Post subject: Re: Fortuitous again |
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tony cooper wrote:
| Quote: |
Perhaps you use the word to mean "fortunate", but I don't and I don't
see or hear used by others that way. It means "by chance" or "by
luck". Chance and luck can go either way, and "foruitous " is linked
to a beneficial chance happening or good luck, but the primary meaning
is still "chance" or "luck".
It wouldn't be fortuitous if the cowboy ran into a gunslinger who was
out to get him, but meeting a pretty young school marm could be
fortuitous. Only, though, if the meeting was by chance.
|
I wonder how the school teacher would find it.
| Quote: |
It would not be fortuitous if the cowboy inherited his father's ranch
because there is no luck or chance involved. But it would be
fortunate.
|
Nevertheless, a number of words ("chance" is an exception) that mean
"luck" are also closely related to words for "happiness" or "beneficial
fate" and the meanings are bound to overlap somewhat.
--
Rob Bannister |
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Steve Hayes
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| Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 8:32 am Post subject: Re: Fortuitous again |
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On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 21:11:41 -0700 (PDT), Bob G <bobjames27@sbcglobal.net>
wrote:
| Quote: |
A scene in a cowboy movie I was watching on TV. The sophisticated girl
from the East stumbles upon the cowboy of her dreams:
She: I thought we'd never meet.
He: Yes.
She: It was fortuitous.
(A long pause)
She: That means lucky.
He: I know.
I didn't watch much longer after that, and never found out the
answers: Did the actors know and didn't want to correct the script
writers and run the risk of offending them? Was it part of the plot,
the cowboy didn't want to correct the girl because he fancied her and
was afraid she'd never speak to him again? Did the writers wish to
imply that he was humoring her so he could feel superior to her? Was
she playing with him, deliberately making a mistake to test his
knowledge? Was she insinuating her desire for him, knowing full-well
the meaning of the word, but twisting it to hint at her feelings? Or
perhaps no one, actors, writers, editors, even the director, noticed
the error?
|
One would need to know more about the plot and the context to know if it was
an error or a play on words.
Earlier in the week I was doing some family history research in the archives
and discovered a misfiled file together with the one I was looking for. The
misfiled one was also one that I might have looked for, but would never have
found.
The details are on my blog at:
http://hayesgreene.wordpress.com/2008/06/30/amazing-serendipity/
I described it as serendipity, but it was also fortuitous. Fortuitous can mean
"lucky", in the sense of good luck, it can also mean "unlucky" as in bad luck.
Someone could be killed by something falling off an aircraft in flight. That
would be fortuitous, but it wouldn't be lucky.
There was a time in my life when "fortuitous" had an important legal meeting.
A number of my friends were banned, and prohibited from attending social
gatherings.
A guy called Rowley Arenstein was charged with breaking his banning order when
the SB found him having tea with some friends at a cafe in Durban. He was
charged with attending a social gathering.
He was acquitted because the court found that the meeting was fortuitous, and
was therefore not a gathering within the meaning of the Act (the Suppression
of Communism Act, Act 44 of 1950, since repealed). He had not arranged to meet
his friends there, nor had they arranged to meet him.
For some time after that my banned friends used to joke about walking around
"looking fortuitous".
If you took it literally, it would have been an error, but it would have been
an error to take it literally. And perhaps the scene in the cowboy movie you
saw was not intended to be taken literally -- it was about a meeting that was
fortuitous, but also happened to be lucky.
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk |
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